Gateway: Together to the Moon

01Houston, we have a podcast.

02Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 348, Gateway, Together to the Moon.

03I'm Courtney Beasley, and I will be your host today.

04On this podcast, we bring in the experts, scientists, engineers, and astronauts, all to let you know what's going on in the world of human spaceflight.

05In Episode 344, you heard NASA astronaut Randy Bresnik and engineer Stephanie Dudley introduce Gateway and share how it will support a new generation of scientific discovery on the lunar surface and in deep space.

06If you haven't listened to that yet, it's a really great introduction to Gateway, and I recommend you give it a listen.

07For our second installment in our monthly Gateway series, we are going to dig into some of the international elements of the station from ESA, the European Space Agency, and JAXA, the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency.

08And who better to tell us all about those than the international astronaut working on Artemis, ESA astronaut Luca Parmitano.

09Luca was selected as an ESA astronaut in 2009.

10He's from Italy and considers Catania to be his hometown.

11His first mission to the International Space Station was in 2013, where he participated in hundreds of science experiments and two spacewalks.

12He went back to the station in 2019, where he conducted even more science, became the first Italian to serve as the commander of the International Space Station, and completed four more spacewalks for a total of 33 hours and nine minutes spent in the vacuum of space.

13In recent years, Luca is ESA's lead astronaut and the European Astronaut Center's JSC liaison officer, spending much of his time traveling between Europe and Houston.

14He wears many hats, like training astronauts for spacewalks, and, most relevant for today's podcast, bringing his astronaut experience to bear for Artemis, NASA's return to the moon, which includes Gateway, the lunar space station where astronauts like Luca will live, conduct science, and prepare for missions to the lunar South Pole region.

15For today, true to his nature, Luca will talk about how both ESA and JAXA are central to Gateway.

16Let's go.

17All right.

18Well, Luca, thanks for coming on Houston.

19We have a podcast today.

20Thank you for having me.

21This is your first time on the podcast, and we're going to talk all about Gateway today, specifically the first two missions to Gateway, Artemis 4 and Artemis 5.

22And the reason we have you here to talk about it is because both ESA and JAXA play important roles in both of these missions.

23So we're covering both ESA and JAXA because ESA is providing various components that JAXA is contributing hardware to.

24So before we get started, since this is your first time on the show, I'd love to help our listeners understand a little bit more about who you are.

25So can you tell us a little bit about where you were born and where you grew up?

26Sure.

27I hope it's not too boring, but so I was born in Sicily a long time ago, and I grew up in Sicily.

28I went to school there until I was 17 years old, and then I won a scholarship to be an exchange student in the U.S.

29That was my first experience in the U.S.

30After that, I went back, finished high school, and I joined the Air Force.

31I went to the Air Force Academy for 40 years, and then after graduating from the Air Force Academy, the Italian Air Force Academy, I came back to the U.S.

32this time in Texas to become a pilot, a military pilot.

33I got my wings in 2001 and joined my squadron.

34Flew as a fighter pilot for about seven years, and then the Italian Air Force selected me to become a test pilot.

35And then that's basically where my career as an astronaut started, because after I finished test pilot school, the European Space Agency had a call for astronauts in 2008.

36That's when I joined the European Space Agency, and then I flew in 2013 and 2019 for a total of exactly one year on orbit on the ISS on two different missions.

37Not boring at all, I promise.

38So it sounds like you loved to fly, obviously, being a pilot, but when did you start thinking about the reality of going to space?

39The reality of it, it didn't feel real until I got a phone call one night while I was in France telling me, hey, do you want to come to Paris?

40We selected you as an astronaut.

41So that's the first time that it became real.

42But as a dream, or more than a dream, as a path, and being part of me for as long as I can remember.

43And what made you want to travel into space?

44Were there any things that happened when you were a child that sparked your interest?

45Well, the question is the other way around.

46Who wouldn't want to travel to space, especially if you grew up in the 80s?

47I grew up around Japanese cartoons.

48They were all about space and space adventures and, you know, Star Wars and Star Trek.

49So as a kid, I, like all kids, I mixed reality and fantasy.

50So to me, Star Trek, Star Wars, and seeing the first shuttle missions fly to orbit were one and the same.

51And for many years, I thought that humankind was permanently on the moon.

52And when I realized that we were not, it was quite a shock.

53I was probably nine or 10 years old.

54So, you know, we desire what we see.

55And seeing that on TV, seeing those first flights of the space shuttle, seeing the astronauts in their white spacesuit working, I thought back then that that was a dream job.

56And it stayed a dream for a very long time, but somehow it turned into reality at one point.

57Yeah, exactly.

58And now here you are with a couple of space flights under your belt.

59You've spent just over a year in space over two long duration missions.

60And you participated in a lot of science while you were up there.

61You were commander of the space station, and you did six spacewalks.

62What has all of this experience taught you?

63Well, I would say that there's too much to just say in a few sentences.

64But I would say that first and foremost, I think about the people that make it possible.

65It's too easy to just focus on the few that have the chance to fly in space and perform up there.

66But really, when I think about my experiences and what I learned, it comes down to who prepared me and how and all the process that turns just a very regular guy like me into an astronaut and capable of performing those tasks up on the space station.

67Secondly, it taught me a lot about myself, about the things that I can rely on, and the things where I really need to rely on somebody else.

68It taught me a lot of patience, also, something that doesn't come naturally to me.

69Well, now we will turn to Gateway, which is the reason that you're here today.

70It's being built as we speak, and it's going to play a really important role in the long-term Artemis missions, starting with Artemis IV.

71And I know Isa is playing a big role in Gateway.

72So I just wanted you to tell us a little bit about that.

73Well, it turns out you just said it's being built as we speak.

74I actually happened to have seen it only about a month ago.

75I was in Italy at Tala Estalena Space, and I was there for a human-in-the-loop phase of testing of what we call the International Habitat, or IHAB, which is the European contribution to the Gateway.

76And while I was there, they gave us a tour, and it just so happened that HELLO, which is the American component, the U.S.

77component of the Gateway, was being tested on a rig.

78And it was really cool to see that, and to think that in a few years, that piece of equipment will become alive with noise and equipment and all the rigging that you need in order to turn a piece of metal into a space station.

79And so the way I see it is, right now, going back to the Moon has to be an international cooperation.

80I don't think anybody has any doubts that the resources and the efforts required to make this happen and are just too much for any single nation to go on their own.

81So this fantastic international cooperation, right now we have four space agencies, NASA and ESA foremost.

82We have the Japanese space agency, JAXA, and CSA all cooperating towards this endeavor.

83The contribution from the ESA side is IHAB.

84So a module, which is really the twin of HELLO, which will be the main modules of the Gateway, and then some other components that will be installed in and outside of the space station.

85And like you said, JAXA is also cooperating with some of the components that will go inside.

86Where we are right now is really in the development phase, where we know what the structure looks like, we know what the structures will do and the components that will go on it.

87But now we have to look at the inside and say, how are we going to live inside Gateway?

88You know, where are we going to sleep?

89Where are we going to eat?

90How are we going to work?

91How do we move inside this piece of equipment?

92So it's really exciting.

93My background as a test pilot helps me a lot in that, because there's a lot of overlap in what I did as a test pilot and what I'm doing now with Gateway.

94So Artemis 4 is really ambitious because it's the first time that we're going to assemble the space station elements around the moon for astronauts to live and work.

95But what about Artemis 5?

96Artemis 5 will have another element coming to it, which is called the ERM.

97At least that was the initial programmatic name, the Esprit refueling module.

98But recently there's been an update of the names for all the different components.

99And the ERM, the Esprit refueling module, it will be called the Lunar View because it has windows.

100And I actually got a view of those windows while I was in Italy testing the Gateway testing IHUB.

101So it will be an absolutely important addition.

102Why are windows so important?

103They just are.

104Even though most of the time the Gateway will be quite far away from the surface of the moon.

105It never gets as close to the moon as the International Space Station is to Earth.

106But can you imagine going to the moon and not being able to have a view?

107I don't think it's imaginable.

108So having those windows will be of the utmost importance.

109Whether you're looking at the moon or, like I suspect, spending a lot of time looking at the Earth.

110And it will be interesting because at this point we will have already assembled most of the Gateway.

111It will be already an inhabitable environment.

112And then with ERM we are enlarging the scope.

113And looking at our capability to service the space station, the Gateway.

114Looking at adding capabilities in terms of logistics, in terms of also refurbishing it, in terms of providing resources to it.

115So ERM will be another very important addition because, as opposed to the International Space Station, Gateway is quite small.

116When we look at the size, it's about one third, one quarter of the size of the International Space Station.

117It will not be permanently inhabited, but we will still have people living there for a relatively extended amount of time.

118So being able to enlarge it and to make it more comfortable to add more volume is part of what we're trying to do with the Artemis 5 mission and the addition of ERM.

119So ESA is providing entire segments of Gateway, but I understand that ESA's contributions don't stop there.

120Can you tell us about the Lunar Link module?

121So the Lunar Link is the main element that will provide constant communication between the ground and the Gateway.

122When I say constant, I really mean it, because for the first time with the Lunar Gateway, we will be going in an orbit that is completely different from what we usually expect.

123If you can visualize the orbit plane of the Moon-Earth system, it's almost like a disk with the Moon rotating around the Earth.

124And until now, including Artemis 1, every single mission that we have sent to the Moon lies on that plane.

125Now, we will be changing that with the Gateway rotating on a plane that is perpendicular to that plane.

126It is called Hello Orbit, and specifically the one that we will be choosing is called Neorectilinear Hello Orbit.

127And that's due to the fact that when you project that on a 3D map, it really looks just like a line.

128The advantage of that is that the Gateway will be going by the poles of the Moon, which is something we've never done before.

129But also, the other advantage is that it will see the Earth continuously.

130And so we will have continuous communication with the Earth.

131The thing that's exciting about the Lunar Link is that it will be serviceable on principle, but it's being designed so that it will never have to be serviced while it's up there.

132So I was involved with it in reviewing the design so that in case something happens, we can go outside and repair it, you know, change the antennas maybe or reconfigure the cabling.

133But the way it's being designed, it will be independent and not need any service.

134This is also cool.

135Can you tell us a little bit about how JAXA fits into all of this?

136So absolutely.

137It's exciting.

138First of all, let me tell you, I'm excited working with JAXA and my Japanese colleagues because it's always an incredible pleasure working with them.

139They are super motivated.

140Their whole culture is fascinating and it's a pleasure interacting with them.

141So the Japanese Space Agency is providing some of the most important components inside the gateway.

142They are the ECLSS system and that's the Environment Life Support System.

143So it's all the components that generate an atmosphere, that clean it, that create ventilation and so on.

144Really, really important because if we want to put humans anywhere inside a space station, we need those systems to survive.

145So it will be an integrated work where the European Space Agency is providing the module, some of the science, some of the systems, including the energy systems, some of the systems that control the atmosphere, the computers and so on.

146But the Environmental Life Support System is going to be provided by JAXA and that's where they fit in.

147And part of the testing that we did recently was to see how we move around those systems and how do we interact with them, how we interface with them and so on.

148So it's been a very close cooperation.

149You briefly mentioned science and Artemis is obviously all about science and Gateway is central to Artemis.

150I understand that ISA and JAXA are working together on some really important science experiments.

151Can you tell us a little more about what those are?

152I can, meaning that what we're working on is how are we going to perform science on the Gateway?

153So at the stage that we are right now, it's really about configuring the Gateway in a way that humans will be able to perform science.

154What I know right now is that there is a dedicated space for, imagine a palette where we will be able to install experiments.

155These will be experiments that can go back to Earth and be changed, be exchanged, so that we don't have a fixed experiment that eventually runs out.

156But we will be able to refurbish it, to change it.

157And so we are dedicating a specific part of the volume, even though the volume is already so small.

158The science side of it is so important and we are dedicating part of the volume to science.

159So there will be an environment where we can install experiments, run them, uninstall them, bring them back to Earth, and see how an environment like the lunar orbit affects our science.

160Because here's the thing.

161People on the ground, they ask me, hey, Luca, you went on two missions.

162You performed a lot of science.

163What are the results?

164And I have to explain to them that science is science no matter where you perform it.

165And when you do science on Earth, it takes years before you can publish a result because it has to be confirmed.

166It has to be reviewed.

167It has to be, in a way, it has to be confirmed.

168Because sometimes it can be hard to gather all the data and come out with a story.

169And what we have found out in the past 20 years on the space station is that some things on orbit behave just the same way and then some things don't.

170So it's the same science, but the results are different.

171So can we expect that to happen on Gateway?

172Anyway, I'm not a scientist, but I would say, yes, we can.

173Because there are differences between low-Earth orbit and the Moon orbit.

174In that, for example, being 400 kilometers above the surface of the Earth still puts us inside the magnetosphere.

175So everything inside the space station is protected by the magnetosphere from cosmic rays, for example.

176When you go away from that, when you go 1,000 times further away, almost exactly 400,000 kilometers away, now you are exposed to a completely different environment, especially the cosmic environment.

177So we do expect different results.

178And that's why having a platform that is, I would say, adjustable, where we can bring experiments, bring them back, modify them, find the answers, and more importantly, find new questions.

179It's part of what we're doing right now.

180And what exactly is your role in the Gateway with ISA?

181Well, that's a great question.

182Thank you for asking that.

183Quite proud.

184I am the crew rep, which means I represent my crewmates for the European Space Agency.

185So right now we have a class of astronauts from 2009 that are still active.

186I belong to that class.

187We have a new class of astronauts.

188And my role is to represent all of them when I attend the meetings, when I do the testing, when I provide my perspective on the design, on the improvement.

189And that's one side of my role.

190And then the other side is that being experienced in extra vehicle activities, like you said, I perform six of them.

191I am also leading the efforts to create an environment outside Gateway that is compatible with extra vehicle activities.

192Well, I think the most important question of the day that I want to end on is, do you want to visit Gateway?

193Well, I would not be an astronaut if I didn't put every effort into trying to achieve that dream.

194I've been looking at the moon for my whole life, looking up and dreaming of the Apollo missions, reading about them, watching movies.

195And I know that my generation of astronauts, at least for sure, probably my class, will not have a chance to set foot on the moon.

196And that's okay.

197But I really, really hope to have the chance to contribute to the program in any way I can.

198And if that means building the stepping stones for mankind to go, building the stepping stones for humanity to go back to the surface of the moon by a gateway, then I'd be really, really happy to contribute that way.

199It's exciting.

200Well, maybe we'll see you up there one day.

201I surely hope so.

202Well, thanks again for your time.

203This was so much fun, and you helped us learn a little more about Gateway.

204Thanks for joining.

205Thank you for having me.

206Thanks for sticking around.

207We have at least two more episodes coming your way about Gateway.

208Those will cover Gateway's robotics, cargo spacecraft, and the airlock, and we'll take a glimpse into the future with what happens with Gateway after it's finished being built.

209Our full collection of episodes, including the first part of this Gateway series, and so much more is on nasa.gov slash podcast.

210You can also find many other wonderful podcasts we have across the agency there.

211You can learn more about Gateway at nasa.gov slash gateway, and you can keep up with Luca at astro underscore Luca on Instagram and X.

212On social media, we're on the NASA Johnson Space Center pages of Facebook, X, and Instagram.

213Use hashtag AskNASA on your favorite platform to submit your idea or ask a question.

214Just make sure to mention it's for Houston.

215We have a podcast.

216This episode was recorded July 17th, 2024.

217Thanks to Will Flato, Dane Turner, Abby Graff, Jaden Jennings, Chelsea Bayarte, Dylan Connell, and Gary Jordan.

218And of course, thanks again to Luca Parmitano for taking the time to come on our show.

219Give us a rating and feedback on whatever platform you're listening to us on, and tell us what you think of our podcast.

220We'll be back next week.

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