Learning to Fly

01Houston, we have a podcast.

02Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, episode 262, Learning to Fly.

03I'm Dan Hewitt, and I'll be your host today.

04On this podcast, we bring in the experts, scientists, engineers, and astronauts, all to let you know what's going on in the world of human spaceflight.

05And for this episode, we've got a special treat.

06We talked to Dr.

07Frank Rubio while he was on board the International Space Station.

08Frank was selected by NASA as an astronaut candidate in 2017.

09Before that, he was a U.S.

10Army major, a helicopter pilot, a flight surgeon, now obviously a NASA astronaut.

11And he launched recently on a Soyuz and is currently on his very first mission on board the International Space Station.

12He calls Florida his original home and graduated from Miami Sunset High School in Miami, Florida.

13And then he went on to attend the U.S.

14Military Academy in New York, where he received a degree in international business.

15And was a member of the West Point Parachute Team.

16Spent eight years as an Army aviator after college, logging more than 1,100 hours as a Black Hawk helicopter pilot.

17Frank then went on to medical school, where he earned a doctorate of medicine from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in 2010, and is a certified family physician and flight surgeon.

18He flew on board the Soyuz MS-22 mission to the International Space Station and was the first NASA astronaut to ride on a Soyuz since Mark Vande Hei's return in March of 2022.

19This was the first flight in Frank's spaceflight career, and we got him just two weeks after he launched.

20So he was able to take us behind the scenes of what it's like to be an astronaut and wake up on the day knowing you're going to climb on board a rocket and head into space.

21Talk to us about what it's like to be inside that rocket, those first moments flying in microgravity, even what it's like to learn how to sleep when you're floating around on board the space station.

22So with no further delay, let's jump right in to our talk with NASA astronaut Dr.

23Frank Rubio.

24Enjoy.

25Hey, station.

26This is Dan Hewitt with Houston.

27We have a podcast.

28How do you hear me?

29Hey, Daniel.

30I hear you loud and clear.

31How do you hear me?

32I got you loud and clear now.

33Frank, thank you so much for checking in with us.

34You know, normally we snag you guys before you fly, but this is a real treat because if anything never gets old, it's talking to people in space.

35So, I mean, just jumping right in, how have the first two weeks gone?

36How are you settling in there?

37You know, it's been fantastic.

38There's so many highlights.

39Probably the number one thing is coming up here and seeing some of my closest friends up here, two of my classmates.

40And, you know, just they're not just familiar faces, but having friends greet you at the door when you're coming up for such a momentous event.

41It's it's been really special.

42And then the other highlight is just the views, right?

43You look out the cupola window and seeing the earth from this perspective is just spectacular.

44Never gets old.

45I feel like a little kid every time I go in there and I look out the window.

46Probably not the most efficient way to get work out of me, but it's it sure is special to look out that window.

47Copy that.

48Shut the cupola windows when Frank's behind his schedule.

49I mean, I wanted to I wanted to kind of dig in because you you just did something that still very few humans throughout history have ever done.

50You climbed on top of a rocket and launched into space.

51So if if we can start back just and it's fresh for you, you've only been there for about two weeks now.

52So if you can take us back to to launch day, I mean, waking up, what is it like to wake up and know that can you even sleep the night before?

53I mean, it's got to be it's got to be like a kid before Christmas times 100.

54You know, that's exactly what I expected, to be honest.

55I figured I'd probably get one or two hours of broken sleep the night before, but I was pleasantly surprised.

56I actually slept really well.

57And I think part of that is just you get in a routine, your family's there.

58And so it was just, you know, I felt ready and I felt like it was time.

59And so I was pleasantly surprised at how well I slept, especially in Baikonur.

60We go through quite a few traditions the morning of.

61And so that was pretty special.

62It kind of breaks up the day and it also makes you kind of look forward to the next thing instead of just focusing on, you know, the big rocket launch later that day.

63And before you know it, you know, you're waving to people, you're, you know, unfortunately, we're in quarantine.

64So you don't really get to kiss your loved one goodbye.

65But you get to kind of send a kiss to them through the through the window.

66And then you're in your suit, you're on the bus and you're getting dropped off right in front of the rocket.

67What was really surprising to me was from the time we got off the bus till the time we were strapping into the seats seemed like just, you know, 30 seconds.

68It really probably was around 10 minutes, but I was amazed by how quickly it went.

69And yeah, and then as soon as you get strapped in, the neat thing is that it feels just like the simulations that you've run, you know, hundreds of time because you've been in that simulator so long.

70It was kind of a comforting feeling of like, okay, we're, we're, we're home now.

71And then you sit there and everything went really smoothly for us.

72So we had about 45 minutes of time left over and you know, you have a playlist of music that each of you submit.

73And so we were able to go through all of our playlists.

74And, and so that also helps you calm down and just relax a little bit.

75And you're just kind of sitting there waiting for a launch.

76And then when you finally get to about one minute to go, I think for me, especially that was like, oh, okay, this is about to happen.

77You count down from 10.

78Of course the engines start to fire around 20 seconds.

79And so by the time you finally get to zero, you're starting motion.

80And again, I was, I was pleasantly surprised at how calm we all felt and were in that rocket.

81I thought my heart rate would be shooting through the roof, but it was amazingly smooth, a very smooth ride.

82And, you know, all eight minutes, you're just kind of going through your checklist and going through each of the events that, you know, is going to happen.

83They happened right on time.

84And, and the whole time you're just kind of smiling from ear to ear.

85But again, for me, I was lucky and I was surprisingly calm throughout the whole thing.

86And so just, just physically inside that capsule, because I mean, it's your, your, your windows are blocked by a shroud.

87It's, it's gotta be, I mean, it's not dark.

88You got lights on so you can see everything, but you're, you're kind of very closed off from everything.

89What do you, what are you feeling?

90What are you seeing?

91What do you smell?

92Do you smell anything?

93What are you hearing as, as the rocket ignites?

94Is it like, would you compare it to, you know, being on a plane taking off?

95Is there any sensation in your life you've ever felt like lifting off?

96Yeah.

97You know, I've been lucky enough through work to see a couple of rocket launches prior to this.

98I've seen a Soyuz launch and I've seen a couple of Falcon nine launches.

99And when you're standing there, especially again, we're, we're lucky enough to be within a few miles of the launch site and you just feel the reverber, the reverberation going through your chest, right?

100That, that, that sonic boom.

101And, um, you know, you, you, first you see the light, right.

102Coming at you.

103So you see the rocket launching soon after that, you hear it.

104And then you just feel it going through your chest.

105And so I was kind of expecting that being in the, uh, in the rocket.

106Um, but again, I was, I was so amazed and surprised that it's surprisingly quiet.

107And, uh, of course, when you think about it, it makes sense.

108They're, they're, um, diverting all of that energy away from the rocket.

109And so it was actually surprisingly quiet and very smooth.

110Again, I was expecting to kind of be, uh, put against the back of my seat, but the, the G's, um, pick up very slowly.

111And, uh, again, uh, it's a lot of weight, right?

112You're, you're several hundred, uh, pounds, uh, several hundred tons of rocket fuel that are trying to lift off at the same time.

113So, uh, before I knew it, we were, uh, two, two minutes into the air and that's really when I first started to feel the G's kind of building up and it was really my face, you know, just kind of, I felt like, oh, okay.

114My skin's hitting my ears.

115Uh, this probably means we're experiencing some high G's.

116Um, but yeah, it, uh, you know, it is of course like nothing I've ever felt before, but it was a lot quieter and a lot smoother than I expected.

117And then, I mean, once, once you're up there, what are, what are some of those, what do some of those first feel like?

118I mean, you're an astronaut.

119Clearly you've been thinking about going to space, if not your whole life for definitely a couple of years.

120What is it?

121What was it like that?

122What was your first look out the window?

123Your first time something floated away from you on microgravity and you had to go catch it.

124Yeah.

125So, you know, um, despite essentially saying, Hey, everything was kind of quiet and calm.

126Um, the first time that I felt really excited was when the fairings finally felt, fell away.

127And, uh, the way it worked out for us, my side of the Soyuz and my window were facing towards the sun and, uh, Dimitri's side was, uh, facing towards complete darkness.

128And so it took me, uh, probably five or 10 seconds of looking around, uh, because the first thing that went through my head was, oh no, my fairing fell and his didn't right.

129We're still, uh, so essentially I started going through a malfunction scenario.

130Uh, and then it took me five seconds or so to realize, nope, it's just that the capsule is oriented in a way that I'm facing the light and he's not.

131Um, and then, so I, I realizing that I kind of looked out the window and that first view of the earth and just, uh, you know, you're still fairly low.

132You're only about 150 miles up.

133Uh, so you can start to see the curvature, but it's not really distinct, uh, just yet.

134Uh, but you, you see the ocean, uh, you see the land and it just, it's absolutely beautiful and breathtaking.

135Um, what was really neat for me is after that, uh, first burn after, um, entry, um, you know, that took us up to about 200 to 220 miles.

136And then you really start to make out the curvature of the earth.

137And that was a pretty special view.

138Uh, again, it's, uh, you just want to look out the window the whole time, but you, you realize you have things that you have to do, uh, procedures that you have to get through to make sure that you get to a station on time.

139And so you guys, you guys did the fast track.

140It was only about three hours.

141Did you, do you stay in your seat the whole time?

142Do you get up and, you know, stretch your legs?

143Um, what was the first time you kind of were able to get out and, you know, start flying?

144Yeah.

145You stay strapped in, in the Soyuz because it is a, uh, two orbit, uh, rendezvous.

146It's incredibly quick.

147We were, we were here three and a half hours later.

148Um, so it's a super quick catch, uh, to the ISS.

149Uh, and so it's not until docking is complete that you unstrap.

150Um, and again, uh, the Soyuz is fairly small and in that small volume, um, you know, you're floating around, but you're kind of bumping into things.

151So it kind of keeps you in place.

152Uh, so it really wasn't until hatch opening and we got onto station and the much bigger volume that I really appreciated how much, uh, more difficult it is to move around and control your motion.

153Uh, so, you know, most of us, uh, do okay, but, um, you know, some of us get, get space sick as we call it, which is just a disequilibrium as your vestibular system tries to figure out which way is up when there's no gravity.

154Um, so I spent that first day, I did pretty well, but I, I still was a little disoriented and not knowing which way was up.

155It was really throwing my mind for a loop every time.

156Uh, you know, especially if I would go up against the sidewall and then my brain would quickly reference that as being the floor.

157Uh, and if you look at it for more than 10 seconds, you can be, you become convinced that that is the floor.

158And then you look up and all of a sudden what you thought was the sidewall is actually the floor.

159And there's somebody, uh, floating on, you know, what you thought was another sidewall, but it's actually a ceiling.

160Um, so your brain is just spinning and going for lots of loops those first couple of days as, um, your eyes and what your brain is telling you don't match at all.

161Um, but again, you, you, you just can't help but smile because you realize you're up here and what a unique opportunity it is.

162And so even though you're not feeling great, you really, um, I think most of us just feel utter joy from, from being up here.

163Yeah.

164Easy to power through when it's, when it's, you know, you're flying in space.

165I, I forgot to ask.

166So we always talk about the first time you see the earth.

167What about the first time you saw a station?

168I mean, it's something that millions of people see in pictures.

169I've probably seen a picture of it every day of my life for the last 10 years.

170Did you get a view of it out the window?

171What was it like to, you know, was it gradually growing in size?

172That's no moon.

173That's a space station.

174As you get closer and closer.

175Yeah.

176So you see it on the video monitor first and, uh, you know, it's just a little spec.

177Uh, and then as you get closer and finally, once you dock, um, it actually, what went through my mind is like, Hey, it looks just like the simulators that we use, uh, to practice for, uh, NBL, NBL runs or, uh, spacewalk runs, uh, back on earth.

178And everything was in just the perfectly right spot, uh, where it was supposed to be.

179Um, but obviously it was all real.

180And so again, your brain just kind of, uh, you know, has this little bit of disconnect of like, Hey, this all looks incredibly familiar.

181Uh, but I'm in a completely new space in space.

182Right.

183And, uh, and I'm 250 miles above the earth.

184We docked and it took, um, you know, a couple of hours for all of the, uh, equalization that has to take place in order, in order to open the hatches.

185And so I spent a lot of that time just looking out the window and trying to cap catch as much of the space station as I could.

186Uh, and just, again, it's, uh, you feel like a, um, a kid, uh, looking at something, you know, at a toy that you've maybe seen on TV and it's finally in your hands.

187And, uh, you just want to kind of look at it from all sorts of different angles.

188And I mean, what are you, you said going through the hatch, seeing smiling faces, that's just an incredible moment.

189But what are those, what are those first hours?

190What's that first day?

191Like you said, you kind of feel like a kid.

192Is it like showing up at your, at your dorm room in college and, oh, here's where you're going to sleep.

193Here's where you're going to eat.

194Just trying to kind of find your way around this new space.

195Yeah.

196You know, it is a little bit, but, um, I guess the one huge advantage that we have is we've spent years, uh, training in, in, uh, building nine, as we call it, the, uh, space vehicle mock-up facility that we use to train in.

197And so it's this weird sensation where it's incredibly familiar, right?

198Like you feel like you've been here before, uh, because we have for, uh, lots of days for many years of our lives.

199Um, so you have a familiarity with it.

200Um, I think the, the hardest part for your brain to realize is the 3d space and the fact that, you know, if you, uh, let go of something, you're going to float up to the roof.

201Right.

202And so the floor, what we're used to referencing as the floor, uh, and it's actually kind of getting away from that reference point.

203Uh, and it takes a few days to do that.

204Uh, but when you finally do, uh, you, that's when you start to feel comfortable up here.

205So there's a, um, a very comforting familiarity and yet a very, uh, strange and, um, you know, kind of alienness to the, to the space.

206And it's mostly because of the zero G and the 3d environment that you, you now live in.

207Um, and then what's it like kind of getting into the rhythm of just being on board?

208Like what was, what was the first time they threw a science experiment at you?

209Do they, they kind of make the, do they make the new guy do all the toilet maintenance for the first couple of weeks?

210Uh, I mean, just what's it like just kind of getting into that rhythm?

211Yeah, no, my, my crewmates have been incredibly kind.

212Uh, they've walked me through a lot of things.

213Uh, they haven't made me do, um, the toilet work.

214Although, uh, you know, you, you kind of want to do those things cause you have to learn, right?

215There's only a couple of weeks of handover.

216And then, uh, before you know it, the people that know exactly what they're doing are gone and, uh, you're in charge of this incredibly complex, uh, national laboratory.

217And so you, you kind of just want to absorb everything you can, um, and, and take every minute to learn, uh, as much as possible.

218Um, but yeah, you know, it's, uh, for me, one of the most difficult things or two of the most difficult things to learn is that when you let go of something, it starts floating away.

219Uh, you know, we have to keep, um, a pretty good airflow up here to make sure that the gas exchanges happen as, as they need to.

220And so between zero gravity and that airflow, uh, things will just start to float away.

221And it's very, very easy to lose, uh, anything that's not in your hands.

222Um, Hey everybody say hi to Nicole.

223Nicole just got here, uh, yesterday.

224So it's been awesome to have them, them around.

225Um, but anyways, so yeah, you, um, you know, you just have to get used to putting something down and knowing exactly where you put it, making sure that it's either on Velcro or on tape so that it doesn't float away.

226Uh, the other thing is that you also float away, right?

227So if you go somewhere and you stop your momentum, uh, but your feet don't hook onto the right, uh, rail, you quickly start to lose that position and, uh, you're floating away.

228Um, so things that you're just so used to use doing become, um, a lot more complex, right?

229So we've gone through all of these projects at home.

230We've practiced them and trained for them.

231Uh, but all of a sudden when you're not standing and you're not having gravity assist you, uh, as part of the, you know, working environment, it just becomes a lot more difficult.

232So things are taking a lot longer than I expected.

233Um, simple things like using the restroom, right?

234You have to think about actually holding yourself down, not just, uh, going about your business.

235Uh, eating is another thing, right?

236You, you have to keep account of your food.

237Uh, it's a lot more difficult to make a sandwich cause it all just wants to float away.

238Um, so it's, it's like learning to live all over again and every little thing, um, you know, you're, you're learning from scratch to a certain degree.

239And we always, we always hear differently, but what, what was it like that first night?

240Trying to go to sleep in microgravity.

241And I mean, is it, I've, I've heard it's the best sleep you ever get.

242I've heard, uh, you know, I, all I wanted to do is lay my head down on a pillow and I couldn't, and it felt weird.

243What, what's it like to, to kind of, and is that gotten easier over time?

244It has.

245Yeah.

246And, you know, it's, it's been, again, for me, it's been really, uh, an interesting experiment as a doctor, just to see the adaptability of the human brain.

247Um, you know, so for those that don't know, our crew quarters, um, are essentially a three foot by three foot by eight to nine foot box.

248Um, and you know, we have two that are on the sidewalls, one that's up in the ceiling and one that's on the floor.

249Um, and so when I went into mine, um, oh, well, and so in that box, our sleeping bags are generally tacked against one of the sidewalls.

250And so you sleep in a essentially upright or vertical position.

251Uh, but depending on which, uh, crew quarter you're using, uh, that can be either essentially what we would see as laying down or laying on the ceiling or laying on a sidewall.

252Um, so for me, that first night was very difficult.

253I did feel like I was just kind of hanging there.

254Um, I wanted very badly to put, put my head on a pillow and not being able to do so and not having that pressure was a little disconcerting.

255Um, but I actually slept pretty well.

256Um, the second night I, I remember waking up probably after six or seven hours of sleep and I was completely convinced that I was laying on a bed.

257My, my brain had somehow, um, you know, convinced itself that I was laying sideways and that my head was laying against something, even though I was in the exact same position.

258And, uh, so it was actually very comforting.

259Um, the third night I actually woke up again and that time I, I was convinced that I was upside down.

260Right.

261And, and so it's just, uh, interesting how your brain kind of re, uh, adapts and adjusts ever since, uh, probably after the first three or four nights I've slept great.

262Uh, it is some of the best sleep I've ever had, uh, because of all the machinery, uh, that we have running 24 hours a day up here.

263There's some really good white noise in the background.

264Our crew quarters are, uh, nice and dark when you turn off all the lights.

265And so you, you sleep, uh, pretty well.

266Uh, but yeah, no, it's been very comforting, but those first three nights were very interesting for me.

267It's, it's always wild.

268Just how quickly you guys can adapt up there to something just so, so alien.

269Um, and so we, we just saw Nicole fly by.

270You're not the new guy anymore.

271What, what was it like to have crew five come on board?

272And I mean, there's 11 people in there right now.

273Is it just, is it a madhouse?

274Is it still big enough that you can find yourself alone with nobody around you?

275What's it like with that many people?

276No, it's, it's awesome.

277Right.

278So it's always awesome to have, uh, friends come through the hatch.

279Uh, even though it was my first, uh, experience again, it's that familiarity with having friends coming through.

280And so that was pretty special.

281Um, it is, it is neat that after just two weeks, you do feel, you know, you definitely don't feel like a veteran, but you do feel the difference of, Hey, my body actually does know a little bit more, uh, what it's doing.

282And I've, I've learned so much in these past two weeks.

283So you immediately, um, you know, start trying to help, right.

284They're also going through something that you just went through two weeks ago.

285So it's very fresh for me.

286Uh, so the good thing is I had a lot of little tips that I remember those first couple of days, uh, coming in very handy.

287And I think that's helped a lot.

288Um, but yeah, there's a lot of excitement, right?

289The, uh, the guys that have been here crew for, they're ready to head home.

290And so crew five getting here, I think is a pretty special for them.

291Uh, crew five is obviously super ecstatic to be here.

292And then, uh, for me, this is going to be the crew that I'm going to spend the next five months with.

293Uh, and so that's also incredibly exciting.

294Uh, it's also a little bit, um, you know, sad to know that my other friends will soon be going home, but I'm also excited for them because they get to see their family soon.

295Um, so yeah, all around, it is absolutely crowded.

296Definitely, uh, almost impossible to get, uh, any time alone other than inside your crew quarters.

297Uh, but other than that, there's, there's, uh, very few negatives and a whole lot of positives to it.

298Awesome.

299Well, I think that's going to do it for our time, Frank.

300I can't thank you enough.

301It's, it's always fascinating to kind of jump into your guys's head and see, see what it's like to, to do something.

302Cause again, like so few people get to do this still.

303And it's, it's so awesome to hear it directly from you guys.

304Um, so thank you so much.

305Best podcast ever.

306Can't wait to see you over the next couple of months in space and can't wait to see you back on the ground, but not too soon.

307You got, you got a lot of time up there and that's, that's good.

308Yeah, that's right.

309We got a lot of things that we need to get done up here.

310So, but Hey, thanks a lot, Dan.

311I really appreciate you taking the time and thank you to the whole team, uh, for making this happen.

312Again, one of the things you said is, uh, it's neat how quickly we adapt, but the only reason we're able to do that is because the amazing training teams that, uh, spend years training us, getting, uh, getting us ready for this moment.

313So, uh, thank you to all of them and, uh, you guys have a great day.

314Thanks for sticking around.

315Hope you learned something today.

316And it's always wild to talk to somebody who's literally in outer space.

317So as always, check out NASA.gov for the latest news on NASA, human space flight, and everything else we're doing.

318You can head over to NASA.gov slash podcast for this and other podcasts from around the agency.

319As always follow us on social media.

320We've got accounts on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, use the hashtag ask NASA on your favorite platform to submit your idea.

321And if you mentioned it's for Houston, we have a podcast.

322We can try to make it into a future episode.

323This episode was recorded from ground to outer space on October 7th, 2022.

324Thanks to Will Flato, Beth Weisinger, Mary Beth Boddicker, Pat Ryan, Heidi Lavelle, Belinda Polito, Gary Jordan, and Jaden Jennings.

325And of course, thanks again to Frank Rubio for taking some time to talk to us on this show.

326Give us a rating and feedback on whatever platform you're listening to us on.

327Tell us what you think of the podcast.

328We'll be back next week.