What It Takes: Johnny Cash

01Adam A, this child is gifted.

02And I heard that enough that I started to believe it.

03If you have the opportunity, not a perfect opportunity, and you don't take it, you may never have another chance.

04It all was so clear.

05It was just like the picture started to form itself.

06There was no way in which a lie could prevail over the truth.

07Darkness over light.

08Death over life.

09Every day I wake up and decide, today I'm going to love my life.

10Decide.

11My advice is, if they're going to break your leg once when you go in that place, stay out of there.

12And then along come these differential experiences that you don't look for, you don't plan for, but boy, you better not miss them.

13This is What It Takes, a podcast about passion, vision, and perseverance.

14I'm Alice Winkler.

15Every episode of What It Takes features a revealing conversation with someone who has literally changed the world, whether it's Rosa Parks, Steve Jobs, Jonas Salk, Jane Goodall, or today's guest, Johnny Cash.

16Their stories are unique, but all of them are inspiring.

17And after all, it's the Academy of Achievement's mission to show you don't need to be a superhero to make a difference.

18Listen to the wisdom in these interviews, and you'll learn what it takes.

19Here we go.

20Well, you wonder why I always dress in black Why you never see bright colors on my back And why does my appearance seem to have a somber tone Well, there's a reason for the things that I have on I wear the black for the poor and the beaten down Hard scrabble farmers, homeless drifters, and men behind bars, These are the people Johnny Cash wrote and sang about for 40-plus years.

21He lent his entirely original canyon of a voice to the lonesome and the lost, the dispossessed and the disillusioned.

22In 1993, Gail Eikenthal sat down to talk with Johnny Cash.

23It was 10 years before his death.

24The first time I knew what I wanted to do with my life was when I was about 4 years old.

25I was listening to an old Victrola playing a railroad song.

26The song was called Hobo Bill's Last Ride.

27Hobo Bill, a railroad bum Was fighting for his life And I thought that was the most wonderful, amazing thing that I'd ever seen, that you could take this piece of wax and music would come out of that box.

28From that day on, I wanted to sing on the radio.

29Johnny Cash's musical dreams took root on a cotton farm in rural Arkansas during the darkest days of the Depression.

30But it wasn't just Jimmy Rogers or the other singers coming out of the family's radio that inspired him.

31I grew up in the 40s, and I heard all these great speeches like Winston Churchill.

32His most famous or infamous commencement exercise speech was, Never, never, never, never, never give up.

33And then somebody else said, Every day in every way I'm getting better and better.

34I didn't especially believe that about myself, but I said it every day and I made myself believe it and it worked.

35But I never, I persevered.

36I never gave up my dream to, quote, sing on the radio.

37And that dream came true in 1955.

38Tell us how that dream came true.

39Who gave you your first big break?

40Sam Phillips at Sun Records.

41There was a label called Sun Records in Memphis that was pretty hot with Elvis Presley and two or three locally well-known country acts and some black blues and gospel singers.

42And when I got out of the Air Force, I went and knocked on that door and was turned away.

43I called back for an interview three or four times, was turned away.

44So one morning, I found out what time the man went to work.

45I went down with my guitar and sat on his steps until he got there.

46And when he got there, I introduced myself and he said, you're the one that's been calling.

47I said, yeah.

48You know, I had to take the chance.

49He was either going to let me come in or he was going to run me off, turn me down again.

50But evidently, he woke up on the right sit-up side of bed that morning.

51He said, come on in, let's listen.

52So he did.

53He said, come back tomorrow and bring some musicians.

54So I went down to a garage where I worked, where my brother Roy worked, and met and was introduced to two musicians down there.

55Brought them back to the studio and the next day was our first session.

56We recorded and released the songs that we recorded the second day.

57I keep a close watch on this heart of mine I keep my eyes wide open all the time I keep the ends out for the tie that binds Because you're mine I walk the line Did you ever sense back sitting on Sam Phillips' doorstep that you would one day be a household world?

58No.

59No, I had no idea.

60Even when my first record was released, two or three days later, I heard it played over Shreveport, Louisiana radio station.

61And I thought, that's too far away.

62That doesn't make any difference.

63That doesn't matter.

64You know, it's too far away from Memphis.

65It was a couple of months before I realized that the whole world was out there available, you know.

66Did you have trouble dealing with success when it came?

67Yeah.

68Can you talk about that a little bit?

69I had a lot of trouble dealing with success.

70I think it was harder for me to handle than failure would have been.

71I don't know.

72It probably was.

73Yeah, I had a hard time dealing with it.

74I lived a simple life and life on the road isn't entertainers, anything but simple.

75Yeah, I had my ups and downs.

76This is well documented.

77His ups and downs included drug abuse and alcoholism.

78Johnny Cash asked not to talk about those periods of his life during this interview with Gail Eikenthal.

79He was doing well sitting next to his wife and musical partner, June Carter Cash, and he preferred to stay in the light.

80But what he was happy to talk about was how he learned to move beyond his mistakes, starting with a book he read when he was 12 years old about an Indian boy named Lone Bull.

81Lone Bull tried to go out and kill a buffalo.

82He slipped out of the village against his father's wishes and went out.

83It was going to be a hero so his family and the other people could have meat.

84The elders of the village knew about the buffalo herd out there.

85They knew it was there.

86And they were making plans to cut into the herd and cut off some buffalo and kill them and have meat for the whole winter and into the next spring.

87Lone Bull wanted to be a hero.

88He went out with his bow and arrow and killed a calf and ran the herd off.

89He drug his calf home.

90His family was fed, but they were ostracized.

91And Lone Bull became a wanderer until he found a village that would take him in.

92And in that next village that he was taking in, he organized the buffalo hunt that winter.

93And they had more meat than this village had ever had before.

94So I learned from my mistakes.

95I think it's probably the best way and it's a very painful way to learn, but you build on it.

96You build on failure.

97You use it as a stepping stone.

98You don't close the door on the past.

99You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it.

100You don't let it have any of your energy or any of your time or any of your space.

101You analyze it as you're moving forward and never fall in the same trap twice, which I can't say that I haven't been guilty of doing.

102But my advice is don't.

103If they're going to break your leg once when you go in that place, stay out of there.

104So Lone Bull's philosophy was I'm kicked out of this village, but I will grow up and I'll come into another one and I will do what I set out to do and that was feed the people.

105So I'm feeding my people right now.

106From the hands it came down, From the side it came down, From the feet it came down, And ran to the ground.

107Between heaven and hell A teardrop fell In the deep crimson dew The tree of life grew And the blood gave life To the branches of the tree And the blood was the price That set the captives free And the numbers that came Through the fire and the flood Clung to the tree And were redeemed By the blood As a songwriter, do you rely a lot on your instinct?

108Songwriting is a very strange thing so far as I'm concerned.

109It's not something that I can say, next Tuesday morning I'm going to sit down and write songs.

110I can't do that.

111Can't.

112No way.

113If I say I'm going to the country And take a walk in the woods Next Tuesday, Then the probability is Next Tuesday night I might can write a song.

114You know?

115Creative people have to be fed From the divine source.

116I do.

117I have to get fed.

118I have to get filled up In order to pour out.

119Really have to.

120What feeds you?

121God.

122And inspiring people.

123In my little world there In northeast Arkansas On the cotton farm It was my brother Jack.

124He was kind of my inspiration But he was And he was two years older than I And he was killed At the age of 14.

125I always wanted to be like him.

126And throughout the year He was a strong person.

127He was a Bible student.

128He was in perfect shape physically.

129I always wanted to be like him.

130And when he died My best friend was still my mother And she always encouraged me To do, to sing.

131Matter of fact, she We were very poor And she took in washing From the school teachers Washed their clothes To make money To give me singing lessons Voice lessons After about three lessons The voice teacher said Don't take voice lessons Do it your way.

132And she said You're a song stylist.

133And from the age of 12 I didn't forget that That that was the way I had to do it Because, you know, The way it was with me I had to do it my way I couldn't reach those notes Singing those great songs Like a lot of those singers could But I could do it my way And the way it felt good to me And that's what music Is all about, emotion So You didn't mention a father Was What about My father was A man of love He always loved me to death We worked hard in the fields But my father never hit me Never I don't ever remember A really cross, unkind word From my father He was a good, strong man Provided for his family That was his sole purpose In life when I was growing up Was there a teacher That particularly inspired you?

134Did school mean something In your career?

135Yeah, I graduated from high school In 1950 In Little Town In Arkansas Actually it was the biggest What they call Cooperative school in the state They were For a small country town There were 1,100 students In the school And I graduated as the Vice president of my class I wasn't all that high Scholastically Because I was writing A lot of poems And stories And songs At the time That I should have been Studying more But school was really Important for me And I was so disappointed In myself That I didn't make Really good grades In math On all the other subjects I did very well But school was really Important to me My parents My mother and father I think they had An 8th grade education Which was adequate For what they did With their lives then But they wanted me And they drilled in me I had to graduate From high school College was another hope That was almost Unattainable For a cotton farm boy There was no money For college So I joined the Air Force Korean War was breaking out And I joined the Air Force You know I probably Had the equivalent of college In the roads I've traveled Since then But it'd be great To go from Be able to Look back on it It would have been great To go from high school Right into college To study music Literature Going back to the beginning Of your career And Sam Phillips What do you think He saw in you That made him Take that chance And go with you And cut a record What was he Attracted to?

136I think Sam Phillips Saw the originality In my difference He heard something That was different Not necessarily Something that was Good or exceptional Or even good But different You know It's like a novelist Writing far out things You know If it makes a point And makes sense Then people like to read that You know But if it gets off Into the left field And goes over the edge You lose it Same with Musical talent I think If you can hold Your listener Hold their attention And sure You know What you're doing And know That you're communicating You know Performance is communicating You've got to communicate If you've got a song You're singing From your gut You want that audience To feel it in their gut And you've got to Make them think That you're one of them Sitting out there With them too How do you do that?

137I don't know I don't know How you do that I just know When I'm doing it And I know If I'm not doing it And after 38 years Experience Pretty well know If it's going to work Or not Usually I hear the train A-coming It's rolling Around the bend And I ain't seen The sunshine Since I don't know When I'm stuck in Folsom prison And time keeps Dragging on But that train Keeps a-rolling On down the sun And I'm told When I was just a baby My mama told me Son Always be a good boy Don't ever play with guns But I shot a man in Reno Just to watch him die When I hear that whistle blowing I hang my head and cry That conversation with Johnny Cash Was recorded in 1993 You can hear more from Johnny Cash At the Academy of Achievement's website Achievement.org There are so many tremendous interviews In the collection With musicians and writers Scientists and entrepreneurs World leaders And great thinkers So when you need another dose of inspiration Come find us This is What It Takes I'm Alice Winkler I bet there's rich folks Eating From a fancy dining car They're probably drinking coffee And smoking big cigars Well I know I had it coming I know I can't be free But those people keep a-moving And that's what tortures me Funding for What It Takes Is made possible by the Catherine B.

138Reynolds Foundation And that's what it takes To be a good person To be a good person And that's what it takes To be a good person And that's what it takes To be a good person And that's what it takes To be a good person And that's what it takes To be a good person And that's what it takes To be a good person And that's what it takes To be a good person And that's what it takes To be a good person And that's what it takes To be a good person And that's what it takes To be a good person And that's what it takes And that's what it takes To be a good person And that's what it takes And that's what it takes To be a good person